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WELCOME TO MATTER OF FACT. ONE AREA OF BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT ON CAPITOL HILL IS ANGER OVER THE UNREGULATED USE OF FACIAL RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY BY FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. DURING A SERIES OF RECENT CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS, LAWMAKERS FROM BOTH PARTIES GRILLED THE FBI AND OTHER FEDERAL OFFICIALS OVER PRIVACY CONCERNS THIS, AFTER GOVERNMENT RECORDS REVEALED THE FBI AND HOMELAND SECURITY ARE USING FACIAL RECOGNITION ALGORITHIMS TO SCAN STATE AND LOCAL PHOTO DATABASES, LIKE DRIVERS LICENSE PHOTOS, WITHOUT THE PUBLIC’S AWARENESS OR CONSENT. FBI DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR KIMBERLY DEL GRECO TESTIFIED THAT FACIAL RECOGNITION IS A CRUCIAL TO PROTECT PUBLIC SAFETY AND THAT IT DOESN’T INTERFERE WITH CIVIL LIBERTIES OR PRIVAC BUT OHIO REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN JIM JORDAN, THE RANKING MEMBER OF THE HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE, WASN’T BUYING THAT. >> WHEN THEY STARTED THI SYSTEM, STOOD UP THIS SYSTEM THERE WERE FIVE THINGS THEY HAD , TO FOLLOW THAT THEY DIDN’T. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THEY STILL HAVEN’T CORRECTED ALL OF THOSE. IS THAT ACCURATE? >> THAT IS CORRECT. >> SO THEY STILL HAVEN’T FIXED THE FIVE THINGS THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO WHEN THEY STARTED. >> WE HAVE OPEN RECOMMENDATIONS. >> BUT WE’RE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE , DON’T WORRY EVERYTHING IS JUST , FINE. AND WE HAVEN’T EVEN GOTTEN TO THE FUNDAMENTALS YET, NOT EVEN THE FIRST AMENDMENT CONCERNS FOURTH AMENDMENT, WE ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE PROCESS OF IMPLEMENTING, STANDING UP THE SYSTEM YOU SAID EARLIER TO THE CHAIRMAN, YOU SAID STRICT POLICIES THAT WE FOLLOW - HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO HAVE CONFIDENCE IN STRICT POLICIES THAT YOU WILL FOLLOW WHEN YOU DIDN’T FOLLOW THE RULES IN TH FIRST PLACE? SOLEDAD: CLAIRE GARVEY IS A SENIOR ASSOCIATE AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY’S PRIVACY AND TECHNOLOGY CENTER AND TESTIFIED BEFORE CONGRESS ON THIS ISSUE. IT’S SO NICE TO HAVE YOU, CLAIRE. CLAIRE: GREAT TO BE HERE. SOLEDAD: SO WE SO RARELY TALK ABOUT HEARINGS WHERE IT’S BIPARTISAN. WERE YOU SURPRISED ABOUT THAT AS WELL? CLAIRE: HONESTLY WE’VE SEEN BIPARTISAN SUPPORT AND INTEREST IN FACE RECOGNITION AND REGULATING FACE RECOGNITION PRETTY MUCH FROM THE START. FACE RECOGNITION POSES VERY REAL CONCERNS TO OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND THAT’S SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY’S CONCERNED ABOUT. SOLEDAD: BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT I WANT YOU TO STEP BACK AND JUST EXPLAIN FOR US WHO DON’T FULLY UNDERSTAND THE TECHNOLOGY WHAT IS IT EXACTLY AND HOW DOES IT WORK. CLAIRE: VERY SIMPLY PUT FACE RECOGNITION ENABLES A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OR WHOEVER ELSE IS USING THE TECHNOLOGY TO TAKE A PHOTO OF AN UNKNOWN PERSON, COMPARE IT AGAINST A DATABASE OF KNOWN INDIVIDUALS AND HOPEFULLY GET A MATCH GET AN IDENTIFICATION. SO THIS IS VERY USEFUL FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT WHO MIGHT HAVE SURVEILLANCE PHOTOS OR VIDEOS THAT THEY CAN THEN COMPARE THAT TO A MUG SHOT DATABASE OR INCREASINGLY A DRIVER’S LICENSE DATABASE AND GET POTENTIAL MATCHES ON THAT. SOLEDAD: SO WHAT ARE THE RISKS, AND WORRIES. I KNOW SOME OF IT IS THAT THERE ARE, A LOT OF IT’S UNRELIABLE. THERE ARE A LOT OF FALSE MATCHES. CLAIRE: THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCERNS WITH FACE RECOGNITION. ONE IS THAT IT GIVES LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES A POWER THAT THEY’VE NEVER HAD BEFOR AND THIS IS WHY. FACE RECOGNITION IS A BIOMETRIC IDENTIFICATION TOOL. THINK FINGERPRINTS, THINK DNA. LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN’T SCAN A PROTEST AND SECRETLY FINGERPRINT EVERYBODY. THEY CAN’T WALK THROUGH A PROTEST AND DEMAND THAT EVERYBODY SHOW THEIR I.D. THEY CAN USE SURVEILLANCE VIDEO AND THEN RUN THAT THROUGH FACE RECOGNITION AND IDENTIFY EVERYBODY AT THAT PROTEST. FACE RECOGNITION ENABLES THE TYPE OF TRACKING THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN VERY WORRIED ABOUT AND WOULD SAY MAY VIOLATE THE 4TH AMENDMENT. SOLEDAD: THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THIS WHO WOULD SAY, YEAH, BUT IT’S ANOTHER TOOL. I MEAN YOU MENTIONED FINGERPRINTS. DNA TESTS WOULD BE ANOTHER ONE . DOESN’T THIS JUST FALL AS ANOTHER TOOL IN A TOOLBOX FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT? CLAIRE: FACE RECOGNITION IS A TOOL, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, IT NEUTRAL. IT HAS POSITIVE USES AND NEGATIVE USES. THE PROBLEM IS IT HAS BEEN DEPLOYED IN A VERY, VERY WIDESPREAD MANNER WITHOUT ANY RULES AND WITHOUT ANY TRANSPARENCY INTO HOW IT’S BEING USED. AND AS A CONSEQUENCE, THERE ARE REAL CONCERNS ABOUT HOW IT MIGHT BE USED, ABOUT THE ACCURACY ISSUES WHEN IT COMES TO FACE RECOGNITION. SOLEDAD: ARE THERE SPECIFIC GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSISTENTLY MISIDENTIFIED? CLAIRE: YES. FACE RECOGNITION CONSISTENTLY PERFORMS LESS ACCURATELY ON CERTAIN GROUPS OF PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY WOMEN, PEOPLE WITH DARKER SKIN, AND YOUNG PEOPLE. AND IT CERTAINLY DOESN’T BENEFIT OVER-SURVEILLED, OVER-POLICED COMMUNITIES WHO MIGHT BE DISPROPORTIONATELY LIKELY TO BE MISIDENTIFIED FOR A CRIME THEY DIDN’T COMMIT BECAUSE THE TOOL IS FUNDAMENTALLY FAULTY. SOLEDAD: THANK YOU F